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In The Meadow with Kiki
Welcome to the Meadow! Join me as we delve into the world of mindset, spirituality, personal development, entrepreneurship, manifestation, philosophy, and more!
I am here to encourage us all to connect with ourselves and the world around us through conversation, play, presence, curiosity, and wonder.
As we learn to cultivate a deeper understanding of our being, call in our most aligned and expansive life, and tune into the deepest parts of ourselves and the universe.
Follow along for the ride!
In The Meadow with Kiki
76. Eric John Campbell - Trusting the Path You Can’t Yet See and the Slow Magic of Self-Love.
✦ Today in The Meadow, we’re joined by writer and spiritual teacher Eric John Campbell. Eric shares his journey from business-minded digital nomad to spiritual author—and how a spontaneous, channeled download changed everything.
✦ Entrepreneurship and spirituality don’t have to compete—they can be sacred complements, balancing structure with surrender.
✦ Your feminine receives the inspiration; your masculine gives it a container. Both energies are needed to create with flow and power.
✦ You’re allowed to outgrow what once fit.
✦ Entrepreneurship is a personal development portal. With no one to report to, your discipline, intuition, and shadows all rise to the surface.
✦ Trust doesn’t mean certainty. It’s about choosing the best-case scenario when your ego wants to protect you with fear.
✦ How self-love is the daily act of holding yourself through fear, giving yourself the validation you crave from others, and showing up anyway.
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Thanks for stopping by the meadow. Thank you, I love you. I'll see ya on the next one! <3
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Hello everybody and welcome back to In the Meadow with Kiki. I believe that every single one of us is meant to have a slice of this life beyond what our wildest dreams can imagine. And the path to that life is hidden in the very dreams that we hold in our heart, just waiting to be created. I want the meadow to be a break in the clouds, a breath of fresh air to show you what is truly possible in this life. In the meadow, we're done letting life pass us by the sidelines. Seeing the same patterns keep us in the same place month after month, year after year. My mission is to give you all the tools, resources, inspiration and ideas to light a fire under your ass to stop waiting and finally take action towards those dreams that keep you up at night. So get ready to dive into the world of manifestation, psychology, energetics, creativity and a little dash of conscious entrepreneurship so that you have all the tools that you need to step into your next level dream reality. So join me as we walk down the path of a life beyond our wildest dreams all through the portal of the meadow. Let's go. everybody and welcome back to In the Middle with Kiki. I am so happy to be here and I'm so happy you're here and welcome to another episode! Today on show we have my incredible friend Eric joining us for a juicy conversation. I am so excited to bring you guys today's episode. It was genuinely just such an amazing time reconnecting and getting all the magical wisdom that he has to offer. Eric is a spiritual author whose work centers around helping people awaken to their inner power and manifest lives aligned with their soul's purpose. His journey began with a passion for business, leading him to live in eight different countries, connecting with like-minded people all around the world. However, a profound spiritual awakening, sparked by a nighttime message of, up, it's all energy, redirected his path entirely, leading him down the journey of becoming an author to share his teachings with the world. Eric truly is such a gem of a human. I am so grateful to call him my friend. And without further ado, let's get into it. Alrighty, welcome Eric to the meadow. I am so happy to have you here. How are you doing? doing very well. I'm happy to be here. Thank you. We had a little catch up moment before our call because we met in LA a couple years ago and had a great beautiful connection the year that we were living there while I was there and it's been a minute since we've seen each other so I feel like it's nice to have a quick little catch up before we dive into today's episode. Absolutely it was amazing. Very synchronistic I'd say. So much I feel like I've been typing out all the notes where it's like it's so funny with like podcast guys I feel like I'm always like I love having the little moment to chat before, then I'm like, oh man, need to, okay, we need to talk about this in the podcast. Like once we get recorded, there's so much juiciness that I cannot wait to dive into. But yeah, so I mean, first of all, if you could tell my guests a little bit about who you are and what you do, if they do not know already, because I feel like already have so many people who just love your work already in my world. But if you can give a quick little explanation of who you are, that'd be great. Yeah. No, thanks for saying that. My name is Eric John Campbell. I'm a writer and I usually write about topics such as manifestation, self-love, intuition, abundance, and all those types of areas. So I just kind of whatever feels most inspiring at the moment, just usually write it down, automatic writing and then share it with people. But I think channel from my higher self. I think we all have a connection to a higher self. So I used to think it was some... other energy that was channeling at first, so wasn't quite sure. But now I think it's just my own soul. It's just like we all have a channel in different ways. I love that. like, I don't know if you remember, but I had loved your TikTok page way before I met you. Like, I feel like I briefly mentioned that to you when we first met. I don't know if you remember that, but I remember seeing you on social media for so long. And then we met and I felt like that was such a synchronistic, magical moment because I was such a fan of your work already. so. Now I love all your books that you've written and I think of you as a great friend. And even though we're far away from each other, I just feel so grateful to have you in my life. So thank you again for coming on the podcast. And I can't wait to dive in. I remember that moment too when we met. It was the first time that I met someone that hadn't seen my videos on TikTok, but I didn't know before that moment. And then just the conversation we had was really special. So yeah, I really appreciate you. I remember that so vividly. I remember exactly. We were standing in the desert because we were at a retreat together. Oh my gosh, that was such a special moment. really remember that so deeply. Yeah, I'm so happy to connect again. You are in Bali right now, right? Is that where you are in the world? In Indonesia. Yeah, we met in Los Angeles and now you've been off on your travels. New life are there. So, you know, we were hoping to have our first podcast in person in LA, but I feel like we both got too eager to have it happen before that. So I'm happy we did it on Zoom. Yeah, me too. It just feels like now is the perfect time. Definitely. Well, all right. So let's dive into I love starting out my podcast always with my guests on like a little bit of a transformational story, a little bit of like how we got to where you are today, how you got to this path that you're on today and what that pinnacle of a moment was for you that switched you over from like, guess you could say like your past life to where you are today. Yeah, I like that way of framing it. Growing up, I was always reading spiritual books like New Age spiritual books and business books. I don't know why I was just always felt drawn to that. but I was more interested in entrepreneurship when it came to what I was doing. Never thought of myself as a writer at all. And then went to university, studied business, entrepreneurship. And then after that, I lived the digital nomad life where I would just live in a certain country for a couple of months and then go to another country a couple of months, kind of just going from place to place that seemed exciting. But I was always thinking I'm a business person, just have this interest in spirituality, but I'm not really a super spiritual person. And then one day I was in Prague in winter by myself. And I remember in the middle of the night, I woke up at 3 a.m. and I just held this presence inside my body that I'd never felt before. And it was actually terrifying to me just because I didn't know what it was. Not that it was an uncomfortable presence, but I felt this urge to write. So I opened my laptop, just started typing in all these words were spewing out of me. And one line kept repeating was, wake up, it's all energy, wake up, it's all energy. And then from that moment on, the Synchronicities happens really fast. I ended up going to Venice, Los Angeles. I thought for just a quick men's retreat, but I ended up not going back to Prologue, left all my stuff there. And that's when I started exploring all the different spiritual classes. And I just felt like a in a candy store. Just at that time, Venice, Los Angeles had so many interesting classes, crystal reiki, breast work, channeling, practice, like how to become a channel. And I just felt like I was coming home in a way. And that's... Eventually when I started to write about a year after I arrived, if I remember correctly. Was there a moment that really stands out to you from when you like move from like wanting to write to wait, I actually want to become an author. Like this is actually the path that I want to go down. Like was there a shift of like becoming like a hobby and a form of expression into, oh, I want to do this. Absolutely. There's a very powerful moment that I'll never forget where I was in Venice and then the coach who brought me to LA for this event. He just invited me on this spontaneous road trip up north. So we ended up going on this road trip, driving to Northern California, actually staying very close to where I grew up as a kid, which felt interesting. And then a friend of mine who came on that trip with us, him and I broke off and did our own thing afterwards. So we just did a intuition led road trip up through Northern California, just really up there in places I've never been to before. And then this friend that was in the car with me, said, oh, let's go to this area with these giant trees. I just heard about it. And so we went to the Avenue of Giants, I think it's called. And I remember we split off into two separate groups. was just the two of us. So I had an individual experience with the trees. And there was one of these enormous redwood trees with the opening in it. And I sat inside and felt a lightning bolt of energy just course through my body. And it said, forget everything and write the book. And to me, everything meant the business I was doing, which was teaching online business courses. And when I came back to Los Angeles, I went to a cafe having no idea what this meant. And then I just took a notepad and pencil and the words started pouring through just like they did in Prague. And so within five days, I had my first book. It was a really short book, but I just couldn't believe it. Oh my God, I had no idea. I didn't know the story. That's amazing. Wait, and where did you grow up in Northern California? in the Bay Area. So it's an hour next to San Francisco in Marin County. I must have known that I forgot about that because I grew up in Mendocino so we grew up really close to each other just a couple hours away. I remember this a long time ago, something like this. Yeah, we were pretty close. Oh my gosh, that's so amazing. And so what did it feel like going through that like identity transformation? Because I feel like, yeah, I knew that you were in a business. I didn't know that it was specifically for digital courses. or physical horses and whatnot. So what was that like shift like for you of like somewhat feeling like overnight of like obviously it wasn't overnight. Like it was a whole journey that led you to that moment. But what did it feel like to step into this like completely new identity that you did not expect to come into your life? Like what was that experience like? That's a great question. In hindsight, it's really clear to see how it all progressed. But in the moment, it didn't feel that way because the first time I ever had an online business experience was when I was 13 years old. I wrote a guide on how kids can make money in this online game I was playing. So there was elements of writing in it, but I didn't see that at the time. I just thought, oh, I like starting online business. And then the online course was teaching. So there's still like a similar element in it. But how it felt at the time was very jarring because I was so wrapped up in this identity that I'm an entrepreneur. I love all things entrepreneur. Like my heroes are entrepreneurs. I didn't really identify with the spiritual part, but after the spiritual awakening, I had this revolt against the entrepreneurial part of me. So I said, okay, screw entrepreneurship. There's no like solitude. This is how I felt at the time. I don't feel this way now. I just feel like everyone who's building for the sake of building something, but why are we building these things? It doesn't feel like I feel a strong purpose from the lot of entrepreneurs that I was interacting with at the time. Yeah. And then the spiritual world opened me up. Like everything's amazing. It's so much love. Like we can channel all these beautiful gifts. But then I started to feel that I was cutting off a known part of myself. This entrepreneurial part is a core part of my identity, but I was alienating myself from it. So then it was a whole nother journey of integration, realizing that I can be spiritual and entrepreneurial and they compliment each other instead of oppose each other. But it sounds nice in hindsight, but in the moment it was very confusing, frustrating at times. How do you feel like, well, hey, two questions, I think. The first part is that like, I think that I also really relate to you with like, having a big part of my earlier journey being extremely practical and grounded in like that side of reality and then having my spiritual awakening and like pulling me into this like more mystical magical like part of the universe. How do you feel that now you've been able to integrate both parts of it where you can still honor that like more practical like side of you that like does it help ground you or does it make does it help you in any way or is there a way that like they both complement each other in your life now? That's a beautiful question. Thanks for asking. I feel that When I say business and entrepreneurial, when I say spiritual, it's not what everyone else thinks of when they hear the word business or entrepreneurial or spiritual, because it's so coded with my own views. I feel like when I say the word entrepreneurial, to me, I'm talking about my masculine side. And when I say the word spiritual, I'm referring to my feminine side. And I believe we all have both sides in equal measure. And it's more about balancing within us these energies. And so, yeah, I don't know. It's interesting still working on it. Sorry, I forgot the original question. Oh, no, no, no. Yeah, that's I love that answer. It was asking like how you how about those two different sides, like how you how they help balance you, I guess. I love that you I love that you reflect that that like the entrepreneurial means masculine and the spiritual feels and feels feminine. like, yeah, yeah, I think you answered the question. But yeah, it was really like how that side of you that you were running away from earlier, like how that is now integrated into your life now and how they both kind of like feel off each other. OK, I see. Yes, I really like this. It makes me think about it in a way. but I feel the feminine side of me is receiving the messages. So when I'm in writing or creating a video, but more writing, very receptive mode, I'm getting the energy coming through me and I'm just sitting there letting it happen. But then the masculine side is the structure. So I have this beautiful message I want to share that I feel lives in all of us, but if it just stays within me and it's not shared, then something about it feels incomplete. So the masculine is the structure. And for a long time, I felt that I'm creating all this structure in my life by reading these business books and focusing on the entrepreneurial thing, but I don't have anything to say. And then when I had the spiritual awakening, I realized I have things that I truly want to share from my heart. And now that's where the integration piece comes where I think that's how they balance each other out. The feminine is part of me that receives and the masculine is the part of me that shares. That's so beautiful. love that idea of giving. their feminine a space, structure, a container to express itself because I feel like so many people will sway so deeply back and forth from one side to the other and like not make much traction. mean, know me specifically for sure. I go through such masculine phases where it's like I'm doing all the practical things I'm supposed to be doing, but there's no like life force energy behind it. And then sometimes I'm so into my feminine where I'm just not doing anything. Cause it's like, I'm just like dilly-dallying and like. expressing myself in ways that I don't give myself a container for. Do you feel like... Yeah, absolutely can relate. Do you feel like you have daily practices or rituals that can help you with that balance? Do you have systems in place with your creativity where you can kind of like... Or that container in your daily routines that can kind of help you with that balance? For me, that's a constant experiment in evolution. I have times where I'm super consistent and then I have times where I just don't do any routine structure. And at this point in my life, I'm coming from a phase of not having that structure and to creating that structure. So I'm just starting to create new routines. One that I've done on and off for a while is meditation as soon as I wake up and then reading 10 minutes of a really inspiring book. But I can't say that I have a track record of falling through because there's a lot of times where I've just been like, okay, I don't have this structure. So I also tried morning pages for a long time. but now I've gotten to the point where I feel like that's a little bit too time intensive for me every morning. Yeah, I'm just now actually going through the artist's way again after a long time. So I've been doing artist morning pages a lot recently. But yeah, I think that for me with morning pages, like I just have to share that like I've kind of needed to commit with like the minimum needs to be one page because like for anyone who doesn't know morning pages are like writing three pages of like just thoughts and whatever comes out, just like free writing. But I do feel like moments where I completely negate that ritual is because it is too time intensive sometimes and I don't do any of it. So I've been trying to like, yeah, just do at least commit to a page and if I can do three, great. And that's been helping me a lot. Not saying that that's something that you should do, but just sharing my audience. I can relate to that. It's inspiring. What about that? I love, I mean, I just love that you've had such a, like, I love that you've had such a history of entrepreneurship and then got pulled into spirituality and then now you got a place for it. You really are balancing the both. And like, I'd love to hear what you think that how business can be one of our greatest mirrors for people who are called to the path of entrepreneurship. Do you feel like that's been its own like personal development, like a higher self-growing process for you? Like, do you feel like that entrepreneurship in your journey through your business and through your author being an author has helped your spiritual journey? Absolutely. I feel like It's impossible to separate the two. It's such a core part of who I am that I can't imagine life not this way. I've felt that I was always entrepreneurial even since after university, even when it was really hard. And it's not something that I chose because I felt like it's a really fun thing to do. And I'm like, I want to be an entrepreneur. It's just who I've always been. I couldn't knock to it. I've had some jobs over the years, but every time I did it, no matter how great the job was, every moment I just did it, I just felt such an internal resistance to it, where I felt lethargic, sick, and almost impossible to focus on it. And so it's hard for me to imagine what entrepreneurship has done for me because it's felt like it's always been a part of my life. So there wasn't a period where I didn't have it and then I had it. But I do think one thing I'd like to share with people is just this thought that really interests me. is growing up, most of us, we go to school and then if you go to university, you also are in another system, like structure. And then if someone gets a job afterwards or in another structure and the transition to entrepreneurship is very interesting because it's the first time in our lives where we don't have that structure for a lot of us. And that is a crazy personal development experience in itself. my gosh. Yeah. When you have no one telling you what to do, it's up to you to have the discipline and up to you to... create those structures and systems is, yeah, that's crazy. And it's everything is dependent on what you do. So I notice if I have periods where I'm not inspired, then nothing happens if I'm not moving, at least because I don't have a team working for me. Whereas if I'm really motivated and I'm doing things, I really see the fruits of my labor. So I think that part also is very personal development because it's so important. It's like it almost forces me to do the right things in my life. or at least on a multiple course, forces me back into it because there's no other option. Oh my gosh, yeah, and you can see it so clearly, it's so true. It's like, hide behind it, but you can just see, like when you're on fire, when you're in alignment and you have the consistency and that structure that you've created for yourself, like, you see the results, even though obviously sometimes, you know, you don't always hit right away. I feel like it is such a, like, you can see so clearly the moments when you're on it when you're not, and you were the only one that is kind of responsible when you get going. And there's no one I can blame. I mean, it's a good thing, but it's all on me. my gosh. Yeah. And it feels so great to also talk to other people who are on the same journey as well. Cause like people who aren't in the path of entrepreneurship are like, it's you can feel so crazy to anyone that's like, that doesn't, know, um, cause yeah, I just take a certain amount of certain kind of personality. I feel like to be able to, you know, really go through with this, this path. Um, was there a time during your journey, you like, were you really deeply questioned your path? And if so, like, how did you move through it? Or did you have you always felt really clear about the direction that you're going in? Definitely not. I mean, I feel even to this day, I'm questioning myself all the time. And the way I see it is my ego is very scared almost every day by something. I can just hear the thoughts in my mind. And then the journey for me is trusting that quiet inner voice within. regardless of how scared my ego voice is. So there's a fly here, he's coming. But yeah, I feel when I was just doing the business, I always questioned myself all the time because I was creating these things that I wasn't passionate about. I was teaching business just because I wanted to learn it. So I thought if I could teach it, I could learn it. But at the same time, it felt so empty, so hollow. I felt there was no purpose to it. Even if I could support myself, there was first the struggle to support myself. And then when I was able to support myself, I felt like this isn't truly helping people in the way that I want to help people. And I don't feel excited about it. I feel like I'm just in the routine of doing it. And then I see the people around me and I'm just feels like I'm chasing something that isn't even what I truly want. But I didn't realize it at the time because I didn't even know what I really wanted. So I was really disconnected from myself. And in that sense, when I was disconnected from myself, I just pursued what everyone else around me was pursuing, not realizing that I was actually distancing myself even further from my true self, I would say. So when I had that spiritual awakening, I felt like that was really a catalyst for my higher self to be, wait a minute, what are you doing? Wake up. This isn't who you are. Who are you truly? Kind of like a force to get me on path, back on path. What are your thoughts on like, has, I guess something to do with like the duality of life around, like, do you think that there's a misconception about manifestation of like it meaning that like life is always a hundred percent and magical and joyful, or do you believe that sometimes moments where you're not in alignment are, you know, the harder feelings are kind of meant to push you to a better part? Like, what are your thoughts on that duality of life? I guess. I love that question. I feel like My perspective on it now is I see my life as a journey. I can't speak to anyone else, but I feel as if my soul chose to come into this incarnation to learn specific lessons. And I have this path to walk. And one quote that's always stayed with me is, I'll know the way, but few actually walk it. Unfortunately, I don't know who it's by, but it just keeps bringing it in my mind all the time. And I feel like as long as I keep walking that path, to me, that's what manifestation is about because I'm Of course, watched The Secret, read a lot of manifestation books, seen a lot of people say visualize what you want. I had the vision board, but something about that always fell off to me. And then the question, I know we talked about this a little bit before we started recording, but I didn't know what I actually wanted. For me, that's the most important question, getting clear on what my heart truly wants. And there's this feeling deep down, even if my ego doesn't always believe it, that if I know what I want, it's absolutely easy to manifest. But the hard part is knowing what I want. And that's how my relationships to manifestation has changed over time. I really don't value the things that I thought I used to want. And as long as I'm walking on my path that I know I'm here to walk, to me that is what manifestation is all about. It's what my whole life's all about. If I can just keep going on the right path, then everything else in my life will happen organically and it'll create a life that's more beautiful than my ego can even visualize for myself. So to me, that's like the North Star. Oh my gosh, that is so beautiful. I, yeah, that just sounds so good to hear and I feel like so many people, guess, like, you know, kind of what we're talking about before the we started recording where, yeah, like, do you have thoughts on like the permissions that you can give people or like just by being yourself, like that we're allowed to not totally know and that we can still be in pursuit of it and we can still be on that journey? Like, I guess also like the permissions that maybe like, what are your thoughts on just like the permission? permission slip to allow your dreams to change, guess. think that some people, including myself, I feel like we're supposed to like figure out what we want and then go full force into it in the moment that we start doubting it or wanting to change paths or like doing things differently. Then suddenly we think that like there's something wrong happening and this is not good. Like what are your thoughts on like how that doesn't have to be a negative thing, but rather just the part of the journey, I guess. I feel like for me personally, I've been very stubborn at times. thinking that I have to hold on to the vision. Maybe that's the entrepreneurial part, let's say, or for me, the masculine part of, made this commitment, I want to see it through until I manifest this thing that I want. And so it's been very tough for me to re-question, rethink what I truly want, and then also at the identity level who I truly am. Because I think at the core, that's the hardest part. I mean, I can say relatively easily that, oh, I thought I wanted this thing, now I actually want this thing. But when I tell myself, I've always been an entrepreneur, this business guy since I was a kid, that's my passion as a kid. And then when I started to question that and think, whoa, why am I into the spiritual world? Why am I suddenly pursuing this life path of an author? That was really existential threat for who I am at the identity level. And that was probably the biggest shakeup. But it's so beautiful in hindsight because life became so much more magical after that and continues to get more magical. But I know how scary it can be in the moment to give up something that was such a sense of comfort and safety. It's probably the hardest thing I've done in my life, not to sound dramatic, to let go of that old identity of myself. But it's because I couldn't see who I truly was. So all I saw was what I was leaving behind. And then that's kind of how I fell in love with myself, is realizing that I actually love who I've always been. But the reason I struggle with self-love is because I was pretending to be someone that I'm not. So I thought I had to love this false version of me, but I actually already love my true version of me. So it's just uncovering that golden Buddha underneath all that. Oh my God, that's so true. It reminds me of a quote that I read from your book recently or today while I was looking through your work of like, you have to be comfortable with to leave your old life to be able to welcome in the new, your new life. Like, what are your thoughts on like, yeah, just. inspiring people to be comfortable with that in between, I guess, where it does feel like how I see it, that jumping off the cliff of things can be a certain way and things can be actually really comfortable and things can actually be really good, but your heart might have this calling for something bigger, a yearning for something bigger. What are your thoughts on just, yeah, that feeling safe in that let go, and trusting that the spaciousness will fill in with so much more? It's such an interesting thing to communicate because I just think, what would I say on my younger self? I would just tell them what he was already knowing deep down at that time, even if he wasn't really believing that inner voice, which is trust this path that I'm guiding you on because it's worth it. Because I think when I see the unknown, when I don't know, let's say back then when I didn't really know who I truly was and I see myself stepping into this unknown path versus the known path, I don't know if it's human nature, but with my mind, a lot of times I project the worst case outcome. What if this bad thing happens? What if... like all these new stories kind of reinforce it for me, what if these things happen? But it's actually feels a little bit harder to think what if something amazing happens? What if actually the best case outcome happens? And I can only speak through my own life experience, I can't speak for anyone else. But every time I've had the courage to make the right choice, for me what feels right, which is going towards the path of my true self, it's always... far surpasses my expectations. So I think it starts off with little baby steps of courage where you think, okay, I'll try this thing. Maybe I'm breaking free from a friend group or a specific type of conversation that I used to be comfortable in, but it's not really me anymore. And then once I get the positive feedback where internally I feel so much better because I released this old pattern that wasn't serving me, that gives me more faith that if I step into the unknown, as long as it's coming from that inner voice, I'm always rewarded in a positive way. And then think it's almost like going to the gym, it's training that muscle. But it can't be through anyone else telling me, because I've read so many inspiring books that I love, they really help me. But at the same time, none of it is as powerful as my own direct life experience. my god, thank you so much for sharing that. That is so, so real. yeah, just trusting your body to feel safe and like, trusting that the best possible outcome is possible. I think we were talking earlier about how it's just so funny how our brains just like, feels so, somehow it feels so much safer to be scared. Cause it's like, we're, we're, we're protecting ourselves. Like as long as we can just like, look at all the possible fires that there are to put out and all the possible enemies and like, creatures in the forest that can attack us. like, somehow gives us this sense of comfort and like, as if we're supposed to, it's a responsible thing to do somehow, obviously not consciously, but subconsciously, I feel like we all feel like it's responsible to be scared and anxious because at least we're bracing for what's possible and protecting ourselves. When in reality, we all know that visualizing the worst case scenario is just causing you to be an energetic match to that worst case scenario. Not that it's gonna happen necessarily, but that you fall down to that vibration and... suddenly your world looks like that's all there is, know, like your reticular activity system just turns on and suddenly you look at all the worst things happening around you and all the worst examples. And I think that so much of his work is, like you said, like moment by moment, bit by bit, slowly retraining yourself to not only feel safe in trusting and believing and visualizing in that better outcome, just, yeah, just allowing yourself to feel that energy and like allowing yourself to feel good and feel safe in that, I guess. Yeah, what has been... beautifully said. Thank you. you've... conversation has been so great. We've been already talking for so much longer than this podcast and it just keeps on getting better. Has there been moments that felt like big pinnacles in your journey where you fully like embodied that, I guess, or like really felt that truth? Like maybe not exactly... I think there's also misconception that like suddenly you embody it then everything's great. Like I feel like it's definitely cycles. But has there been a moment like earlier on in your journey when you had your awakening, like where it moved from like intellectualizing it to like fully feeling this truth? guess that might be weird question. Let me know if that right if you something comes to mind. Yeah, it's interesting. I'll think about it for a second. See what comes up. I feel that if in the present moment, this is the practice I'm currently in right now, which I think is aligned with the question, which is learning to really enjoy this moment as much as possible. and just expand that joy instead of waiting for any moment in the future where things I believe will be better. I think the manual book was the book that I, I mean, I know that it's the one I shared the most on social media, but it was interesting. I would keep repeating this one quote because it tended to do really well, which is if you're not happy in your present moment, you'll keep manifesting more of the same because you're not, you know, being happy in your present. You're waiting for a future moment and confirming that idea. And it was the most popular quote by far. for a reason. And it's also the lesson I most needed to learn. So if I look at this book as a mirror for what I need to learn, it's very interesting to me that that was the one that people tended to respond to a lot because I'm realizing more and more something that may be cliche, but it's all an inner journey. And I do see the outer world as a mirror. And I don't look at my outer world anymore to tell me whether or not I'm on track. I mean, sometimes my ego falls into that. But when I'm in a state of clarity, I just look to how I feel internally to gauge whether or not I'm living a successful life for me. And I've been noticing that more and more throughout the day, I'm feeling this underlying feeling of peace and happiness. Of course, I have the full range of emotions and there's times where I'm very angry, upset, whatever the emotion may be. But even during those emotions, I feel like the foundational level of love that I feel is growing. And I feel like that's the most important sign. So when I look back to my life, it's hard to say, was there a specific moment where this happened? Because there are these big turning points in the external world where it's like, oh, that was a big moment. But if I really am honest with myself and I just look to my inner world, I've noticed the steady foundation of self-love has been growing over time, just like a plant or a tree would grow. It's not just this overnight, a tree went from nothing to a full tree. It's actually been gently growing in its own time. It's so beautiful. It's such a beautiful way putting it. Thank you so much for that answer. Oh my gosh, I love that analogy and of kind of like what we were saying before the conversation of like these two timelines of how things move fast and slow at the same time where it feels like, yeah, I do feel like in this day and age, I feel like we're always looking for like these, it's such a paradox I feel like, because it's We can shift in an instant, feel like we can shift into the frequency of presence and love and abundance and magnetic magical energy like in a moment like and we have so much power in that but at the same time this longer path of a journey it's not like we just change overnight, you know, it's like we can have an awakening overnight like you you know, you had this beautiful magical synchronistic awakening but I love that you said it's like it's been like a slower growing tree because I think that it's that is that reprogramming in that identity shifts. like those things they're chipped away at over so long. And I think that so many people go on this path and they get really frustrated because they're like, okay, I'm doing all the things and things aren't changing yet. Like, I don't believe it anymore. I'm quitting. I'm going back to wallowing and like, you know, and so I, yeah, I just love that you mentioned that because I think it's, yeah, it's always that thing that that dichotomy of like how instant the shifts can happen and how in reality it is, it is a long journey that you have to just commit to and I don't think it really ever does end. It's just that we fall deeper into ourselves and like spiral upwards towards the life we want to live and the identity we step into. But it's all about that faith. Like what are your thoughts on the idea of what faith means and trust, not in like a religious sense, but rather like, you know, the spiritual sense, but how you can have faith in something that you can't quite necessarily touch or feel, I guess. Yeah. I love when you say that. I think, um, I think it's connected, but part of that important for me to share is this is how I see it in hindsight now, which I'm even surprising myself with the answer I'm giving. But it's because in the moment, I never felt like I was slowly growing over time. I was always looking for the big epiphany. I was especially obsessed with looking at my past, almost like I'm going to find this golden nugget, like childhood trauma or some like need that insight. And if I just have this insight or what career I should focus. everything will change. So I was motivated by finding the quick insight, not realizing that throughout that entire process of searching for the one thing that will change everything for me, I was slowly changing day by day. And I look at my life as different chapters. And I noticed that when I'm in a chapter, a lot of times it feels like I'm not making any forward momentum at all. It just feels like I'm repeating the same struggles. I'm repeating the same daily routine. Nothing's happening. But as soon as that chapter closes and it's an energetic chapter, can feel it's complete. I look back at it and I'm thinking to myself, wow, look at how much I've grown in that year or those two years. I didn't even realize that was occurring. So for me, when I hear the word trust, it's having faith in the moment, what my mind or ego can't see. And I want to be clear that I love my ego and I'm not trying to say the ego is bad at all. It just has a limited viewpoint. And I think in the moment, We don't see how incredible each of us already is and how incredible we're already doing. And whenever I go to write, that's the reoccurring message. It's never telling me like, you should do this or you're not doing enough. It really is always the same thing. You're doing an incredible job. You're so loved. You're a loving person. Your energy is so beautiful. Just keep going. And I felt like I wanted this validation from someone else, not realizing that the moment I give it to myself. then everything is already perfect in a way. I mean, it's not to say everything's perfect, but at the same time, everything's perfect. It's like a feeling to it. But I just feel that trust is realizing that you already know what you're doing. I'm speaking to myself, but also to each person. And you're actually already on the path. You're already like the fact that anyone's listening right now means they're already doing an incredible, amazing job. And I just, I just want to let myself know that I'm doing enough and I want to let everyone else know that too. tearing up, Eric, oh my gosh, that's such a beautiful, beautiful way of expressing that. Wow, I needed to hear that so hard. feel like, yeah, I mean, I you talk so much about self-love and we hear talking about self-love all the time. even as I was like, prepping my questions for you today, know, like a topic of self-love was something I was thinking about, I feel like it can get so watered down sometimes, like what that actually means. It can be such a self-help, like, oh, just love yourself, like blah, blah, but. What you shared right now is so freaking powerful, because it's like, we're always on this hamster wheel of like searching for that validation, that pat in the back of being like, at least, you know, especially for me, I really crave external validation of like the people around me to be like, Kiki, you're doing a great job, like pat my back, you know, just let me know I'm doing right. And, you know, that comes sometimes, but then sometimes it doesn't. And like, I think that when it comes to, I mean, on the more practical expression of like showing up online and like the... metrics of like views and like hearing feedback on your work that you put out onto the internet. I think it can be such a high and low of like, yeah, you can, it feels great when people are validating you and it feels great when you get that, but then suddenly the algorithm doesn't show yourself to people or suddenly you're not getting that. And so I feel like what you just shared is so powerful. Cause like you said, it's like, we are in control. It's like, we are the creators of our reality and like, we can give that to ourselves. And then when we give that validation to ourselves, and can be at a place of that grounded self love, it radiates and then people feel that energy and then they reflect that back to us too, where it's like, it's so empowering. I feel like it's so easy to get stuck in the cycle of like wanting something outside of us to come in and just fix us and save us and like make us whole and make us better. And I think that it's like a difficult pill to swallow, but also the most important empowering pill to swallow in the world too, where it's like, it's you. At the end of the day, it's you and you, no matter what. The people and the relationships you have in your life, the people that come through, the validation you get, the wins that you get, it's always going to end up being you and you when you go to bed at night. It's you and your thoughts. And I think that, you know, what you just shared feels like you get to create that space to make it a loving space, even when half the time our ego is trying to, you know, fuck with us. So thank you for that answer. Yeah, thanks for sharing. Absolutely. I think what it reminds me of is I thought I wasn't so attached to external validation when I started sharing the manual book on social media, but I noticed that during around COVID time, the book started, these videos did well, and I was obsessively checking my phone. And it made me realize I'm actually more dependent on external validation than I wanted to admit to myself. And that was kind of an awakening moment where I was like, damn, I don't want to be this attached to validation, but... At the same time, I understand how hard it is to have that internal battle because I think it's something we all know is not good. I mean, at least I think most of us can agree that we don't want to be dependent on external validation. And yet somehow with social media, it's a huge opportunity to learn, but also an incredible challenge for me personally to have this feeling of I want to share or show up, but I don't want to be reliant on how people respond to what I share. for my own sense of self-worth. And it reminds me of, thank you for sharing that, because it also reminds me of that weird balance we had to take where it's like, you know, with my own business, where it's like, not letting, when things aren't working, not letting it hit my ego and not letting it change my self-worth, while at the same time, having a rational view of it and taking that as feedback of like, okay, well, maybe I can do something different. Like, maybe I can, you know, like, not being too stubborn on like, no, I believe in myself, I'm gonna make it work, rather like allowing that to be feedback and consistently showing up, not let them like stop you. Because I think that sometimes, you know, there's countless stories of like YouTubers that like they're going in day in day out doing the same things, but perfecting their craft over time, honestly. And then one day they blow up and all the hundreds of videos that they did before them were what allowed them to blow up because people were able to go back to their past and like, But yeah, I think it's like that interesting balance of like letting yourself grow while still loving yourself and trusting that you're doing your best and that your work is amazing even when it's not doing great, but also being able to continuously push yourself and to grow farther than that, I guess. And that's not a question. you have thoughts on that? Yeah, I mean, I think it's really interesting. It definitely made me think of this idea where when I read all the business books growing up, I started to see these patterns. And one of the patterns that I saw was the advice was always listen to your customers, which for content creation is listen to your audience, and then create something that they want. So don't just create something because it's something that you want to build because then maybe people won't respond to it. This is the message I got from those books. It was always, okay, interview people, talk to them, find out what they're looking for, and then create something that's a match to that. But then when I had these more spiritual classes, the overwhelming message that I got... And then also Rick Rubin, the creative act, I think this is a big part of his message is you don't create for your audience, you create for yourself. And then that's going to make it more authentic and your audience is going to respond because it's coming from that more authentic place. So I experienced both extremes and I think like anything in life, the either extreme is probably not the way to go. It's usually the middle way, but it's so hard for me personally when I, cause I was having this recently where I had the feedback. from social media that I can't keep posting the videos the way that I've been posting it. But it's so hard to not take that personally when I felt like, you know, that was from the expression of I've created this because I wanted to create it. So I find this is a really interesting dance. You're responding to the feedback of your audience while still remaining grounded and centered on the message you want to share and not deviating from that at all. And I know it's possible, but it is a challenge sometimes. Oh my gosh, that's such a... They have the dance of entrepreneurship in the soulful spiritual world of helping and self-actualization and healing and all that. I think that for me, I've also been just so stubborn of that advice. I've been in such amazing programs of education of doing that market research and looking at what's selling and whatnot. And then being so frustrated because it's like, well, I haven't really found my perfect people. I I have found so many of them in this community. But there's still so many that I have yet to reach. I don't know exactly what they want. Maybe I don't know exactly how to communicate to know what to ask them what they want. I But then yeah, having that balance of just like not fully trusting what I want to create but not knowing exactly what they want and then that causes me to kind of be in this limbo where I'm like just like spinning my wheels like not actually creating so I feel like um, you said, I think that all of this is just like the dance and the dance of life in the dance of manifestation I feel like it's just all about nuances and like contradictions and like being okay with things meaning two different things like this and like, you know, and I think that that's kind of the art of it, right? Like the art of it is being able to just like tune into both sides and tune into your intuition, into your heart, into real life, like real strategy and algorithm bullshit and making decisions from that place, I guess. think it's such a beautiful point. I feel like Two things can be true at the same time, even if they seem to contradict each other. And I also feel like we attract the teachers that teach us what we need to know at this moment. So I think it's good to have someone that teaches an extreme point of view sometimes, because maybe in this season of my life, let's say, it's, okay, I need to respond to market feedback. That's just the message the universe wants me to learn. And that's where I can grow the most. But then maybe that season of life passes and all of sudden I need to go back within and reconnect with what I'm doing. So then I listen to another teacher who's just mirroring back the lesson that I must need to learn at this point. And yeah, both can be true at the certain point of our life where we're to hear it. And then also it's kind of related to the idea we were talking earlier about being able to shed old identities or old stories. Sometimes we can be very clear on one path and then it's time for a change. And if we feel that internally, that's okay. And then now we're doing the exact opposite. I mean, this is for me sometimes. I feel like I'm doing the exact opposite of what I used to do. But that doesn't mean it was wrong in the past. It just means now this is a new time in my life and it's time for a shift. And you couldn't change in the future. I love that point so much. And do you think that like also pivoting to the idea of like deep self love for all versions of you and all past versions of you because I feel like so much of we can be so stuck in the past and the anxiety of the future and like our mistakes of our past. Like is that a way that you're able to give love for the... versions of yourself that maybe have made mistakes, maybe didn't show up in the way that you maybe wanted them to, but like, can still love them and accept them because I get that we can't change anything from our past. Yeah, that's really interesting. I feel like when I, because again, I can only speak to my experience, but when I meditate or write and go within, I feel as if I'm connecting to the part of myself that's eternal. And this part of myself sees all the different versions of my human self that I've been in this lifetime. And I feel it's true, so at least to me, where we do die while we're alive, it's kind of like the stories die and then we create a new story. So I think from the higher self that's unchanging, that part is always a place I can find peace and foundation and a source of infinite love that we all have. I mean, we're all intimately connected with and one with. But when I look from that vantage point and I look at the different people I've been throughout my life. That's where I can, I mean, it's still work in progress, obviously. It's not like I have this down perfect at all, but I'm working on sharing more love with each version of myself because each version of myself in a way was their own person, like their own worldview, their own beliefs. And they did the best they could while they were acting from that story, that paradigm. But when I turn into a different paradigm and story, it's almost like I became a brand new person. And I can still relate with the person I used to be, but at the same time, I'm not that person anymore. So it's really hard to put into words what this feels like. But I don't know, I'm glad that you shared what you shared that made me think of that. Because I don't know, was just something I think is a universal experience in this human life. Well, that was so well put. You expressed that perfectly. think that I feel like, yeah, I love with your work. It's just a reminder of the truth of that infinite magic soup that we're all a part of. And I feel like as like, you my viewers have known that I've taken a long break from my podcast and have just been so deeply into this like other world of moving to Los Angeles and like, honestly, being a little disconnected from my favorite authors and my favorite teachers and speakers and like, it's so easy for me at least to feel moments where I feel disconnected from that truth and feel apart away from that. What are your thoughts on just this illusion of separateness of like, how when we're tapped in, turned on, like tuned in, how... we can feel that presence, then we step away from it and it feels like I love viewing it as like this like shower that like is just shower with love and it's always on, the faucet never turns off, we just, we step out of it or we close it, but it's trying to go through, it didn't disappear. What are ways that you reconnect to your higher self and to source whenever you feel a little disconnected from it, if you ever do? Yeah, definitely I do. That's a great question. I feel like it's such a magical feeling. to disconnect and forget and then remember again. And I think more the beginning of my journey, was, I I felt like before it was spiritual awakening, I was just forgetting full time. And then that's why I use the word awakening. I think a lot of people use that word. It's like, oh, I remember. I remember who I am, but then I'll forget. And then I remember again and then I forget. And then I think the more I keep living a life that's in alignment with that remembering when I sit in meditation, which is very important for me or writing, just automatic writing where I don't process what I'm going to write. just write down whatever comes through just in like an artist way. Those help me remember. And then also the environment I'm in makes an enormous difference. So I like to surround myself with people that remember because then I remember and a lot of time that's through teachers, especially when I was first starting this path where I felt like my external environment was a reflection of where I was at the time. but I wanted to remember more than I did at that time. So I would tune in to teachers who remembered a lot. And then I think by focusing more my attention on that, then I started to remember more often myself. But it's always this dance of I forget and then usually meditation for me brings me back or time in nature. I love that. What is your meditation practice look like? Is it something that looks similar each time or is it something that's evolved that looks different? something that I've been really trying to hone in on my practice that I fall off of way too often. So I'm trying to get back into that more. I definitely fall off of it. I haven't done it a lot of times. I would stick with it for a while, but then I would forget about it or I would say it's not a priority. And then I would realize it's a priority. So I guess remember again, and then I would stick with it. But for the last two or three years, whenever I'm doing it, but I'm not saying I'm consistent with it, 22 minutes, for whatever reason, that number for me works really well, but it's different for each person. from when I wake up before I check my phone. So it's just from waking up, meditating for 22 minutes before I get any external stimulation, even if it's good stimulation. But again, I'm not perfect in this at all. So there's a lot of times where I go a large amount of period without doing this. But when I do that, I feel better and more connected. Yeah, I think I just need to leave my phone in my bedroom before like, I think I always like have the intention of like, You know, my intention is always to have my rituals and practice before I have any outside stimulation, but I always somehow get pulled into my phone for something, but you know, just like, I'm just gonna leave it in my bedroom. So I love the idea of talking about surrender, right? Like, is there a way, like, surrender as like a core part of creation, but how do you personally navigate like the tension that happens between surrender and taking action? Hmm, that's a very interesting question. I have a harder part with the surrender than the taking action. I feel like, at least when it comes to work focus, like, entrepreneurial journey and creating and sharing the writing. I want to just go nonstop and I want to just keep creating, keep creating and sharing. But I've noticed that it sometimes becomes an unhealthy pattern where I'm missing out on something that I can change and I really need to be in a state of surrender to receive that. But I think this comes back to the part of self-love that I struggle with, which is just giving myself permission to go slow and to take days off and to just be at peace with not doing anything productive. Because very ironically, it actually is the most productive thing you can do, but it doesn't feel that way in the moment. At least for me, I have a lot of times and like, oh, I should be doing more or why am I just doing nothing? But usually when I take a day or a couple of days off, that's when I have the best ideas that actually be saving me a lot of time. Yeah. Yeah, it's a struggle for me sometimes. Thank you for sharing that. What do you about you as an author? think that's like the best example of, you know, getting into flow and like feeling creative and then feeling resistance. Like, is there something that you do when you are feeling resistance that helps you get back into flow and get back into your writing that you've laid that comes naturally to you think or is there like certain tools that you use specifically or? Yeah, I think when I feel low, I'll just start off by painting a picture of what that looks like for me. I usually check the news. Like somehow I just feel like I check more news when I'm feeling low than when I'm high. And I browse on social media feed. It's interesting that a lot of my work is sharing out on social media, but at the same time, I don't like consuming on social media. But I feel the pull. It's so addicting. I don't know. It's just really hard. I try a lot of tools to get myself not to do it, but sometimes I catch myself scrolling and it takes me a while to get out of that mode. But I think that's kind of usually what I do when I'm low. And then the question is, how do I get out of it? For me personally, meditation. is almost always the best way. mean, sometimes changing my environment, like if I'm inside, I'll go for a walk. But I have to say the most effective tool I have is just put the phone away, put away all the things that are reinforcing the low state that I'm feeling energetically and sit with myself and meditation. But it's hard when I'm feeling low to do that, even though it sounds really simple and easy. It's not funny. I feel like that's something I've been really working through recently where it's like, it is the hardest times when you're feeling low and you fall behind your vices where it's like, All you want to do is like on the check the news and go on your phone whatnot and you know so clearly and it's it's you can prove it to yourself time and time again how life-changing a stupid little walk in nature will do to you or some meditation some journaling. I'm thinking a lot about just like how toxic our phones are and it's always this um I go through moments of just like wanting to like completely disappear from social media and like just completely get rid of it, but I'm like, wait, but the whole everything you wanna build is on this online world, so I gotta figure out a way to balance it. But yeah, it's definitely been top of mind recently, it's just how fricking addictive it is and how easily I trick myself into being like, this is research, I'm inspired by myself. But I'm like, okay girl, are you actually gonna post now? Or are you just in the doom scroll and are you not gonna get out of it? But I also feel like it feels good to know that other people go through the same thing too, where it's like, yeah, it's definitely. I feel something that was done to us that we're kind of like, now having the responsibility to pull ourselves out of versus like, yeah. It actually makes me think of something that I find really fascinating, which is how much control do I have over my life versus how much control I give other external forces outside of myself. So I do feel that the social media algorithms are getting more addicting and there's a technical reason why that's true. So it does feel like the external force in my life that pulls me off center is getting stronger. But at the same time, I always know that my internal locus of control is stronger than any external source. So it just means it's an opportunity for me to strengthen my inner muscles and pull myself out of it. Because I see so many people saying that it's getting more addicting and I do agree with that. But at the same time, I don't want to feel victimized by that. I still know that it's within my willpower to set better habits, create structures and systems to not haul into that. But it's a new challenge, so it's interesting to play with it. That's so true. I feel like that's always it goes back to just the power that we have where it's like reframing any situation is so freaking powerful and like looking at that and being like, we're screwed. Like, we're just going to deal with like the media trying to rot our brains and like that's just reality. to live with it versus like, yeah, reframing it into like, oh, hey, well, this is like a reality of like the truth of this. But like, how can we use that for something that can grow us? And like, push us to where we want to be. I think that's also just like the reframe for everything. Like, I feel like so many things, like, we think, we see things as good or bad or black and white, but like so much of life is always in the nuance and like our perspective and the way that we view things is everything. Like we really forget just how powerful, like just the way that we view the reality that we're in changes everything. And your work really inspires me with that. And yeah. No, thanks for saying that. I appreciate it. Yeah, I agree. The perspective is so important. I have so many more questions I have for you, but I have to keep it too long. Is there a certain book in your life that that was not your own that really stands out to your own journey or resources that really influenced you in your journey that you'd want to share with the audience? Absolutely. It's changed. When I was younger, I was obsessed with certain books. The first one was The Downed Chain. I'm sorry if I mispronounced that. then it was also Illusions by Richard Bach and then Sid Harta. And then of course the Alchemist. But I would say the book that changed my perspective most recently was Atlas Shrugs by Anne Rand. Atlas Shrugs. Atlas Shrugs. Oh yeah. Yeah. I was in Chiang Mai in a cafe and I overheard someone mentioned it. And when I felt it in my body, them saying that my whole body was vibrating saying this is a very important book for me to read. And in a lot of ways, it's a fictional story with a philosophical message that almost feels anti-spiritual in lot of ways. So it challenged me. But at the same time, I felt like I learned so much about myself while reading that book. Wow, that's so good to hear. I love hearing that. Books can be so freaking life changing. I feel like it's so funny. think for myself where it's like I go through slumps where I feel like I'm not feeling super connected to books and then sometimes I'll read something. And it actually reminds me of another topic that I want to talk to you about that I want to get your thoughts on, which is I remember having a conversation with this guy at a hostel in Spain in 2022. we had this beautiful deep conversation about how, like, on the spiritual path, I feel like when I had my spiritual awakening in 2019 when I did mushrooms for the first time, and I went from being like a full atheist, like not spiritual at all in any way into you know, stepping foot on the most beautiful spiritual journey I could have ever asked for. But I think that at the beginning of my journey, I would have these realizations and these breakthroughs that were just so life-changing, where it felt like I was like here at the bottom, like for anyone who's not seeing this visually, you know, at the bottom of my path. And then I would have these breakthroughs that would just push me up so high. And it was like everything I saw in a new light in a new world. But as I went down the path and as I went on the journey, these new realizations didn't feel as grand because I felt like I had already like had these realizations. so it's like, I feel like talking about that perspective shift again, when we're able to kind of just like silence our mind and silence what we think we know and like, you know, I think that the ego can be like, Oh, well, I already know that. Like, I've already heard that. But like, you can read a book that you've read dozens of times before, and you can read it with new eyes and have every word shift your entire existence in a whole new way. So I just to share that. Absolutely. Yeah, thanks for sharing. Actually, it me think of something. which I never really thought of before. But if I look at my path, it felt like I was on this, let's say bottom in this path. And then when I had this spiritual awakening and all of a sudden I was thrown into, for me personally, Venice and Los Angeles taking all these classes, I felt super high. I felt, oh my God, life is incredible. Every single moment is bliss. Just waking up to the love. Everything is love. But I almost felt like then it got pulled away from me. So... If I were to look at the universe as a teacher and this is a school, this life, I would say that I was awoken, shown the highest potential, but now I have to actually do the work to slowly walk there. So it was enough to get a taste that motivated me because it can be really hard to do the inner work. But the motivation was so strong because I realized the potential of how beautiful life can be and how much love I can experience. And that has been a constant North Star of this work is worth it. So you mentioned earlier about trust. I think that helped me have trust, having those peak experiences, even though they couldn't last. Oh my gosh. Thank you for sharing that too. Like, let's just back and forth. Just thank you for sharing that. That's such a beautiful point because I think that reminds me as well as after my spiritual awakening, like I had that same like six month high where I was the most confused I've ever been. I was like lost in my career. I had no idea what I was doing. It was not financially great, but I was just riding high on the list for months. Like I... would just sit in my bed and just lay there and just like soak in just the bliss from the universe and all these lessons and like the awakening of the realizations of like the truth of life and the universe and like source and I would go on these like long rambling walks in nature and just like I had, you know, just read The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle like I discovered Abraham Hicks like all these new teachers like I had just discovered them and before like and I had no idea anything about them beforehand and I think that similarly, like, I think part of the story, is not not super off topic, but similar, that was a time where I was most lost and confused. And so it felt like I was like stepping foot into infinite possibility and unlimited like possibilities. And then as I went down the path throughout the next couple of years, the more clarity I would reach, the more scared I would become somehow where it felt like when I was fully lost, everything felt like possible. And then The more clarity that I got, the more pressure I guess I put on myself of like, oh, well now you gotta make this work, you know? And so it's like, yeah, I think it's just a good reminder of like, we always have the power to like come back to that space of like that more naive, pure, precious energy of like the wonder of life, again, as it is right here, right now in this present moment. And like you said, knowing that like this is the truth and that we can walk ourselves to that reality in that path. And just knowing that that is there waiting for us always. That we're in the pursuit of walking to that deeper, more embodied reality. If that makes sense. don't know if I rambled too hard there. Absolutely. No, that was very interesting. I actually remember this video I saw recently on TikTok. It was from a book, this idea of a tree. Maybe someone listening would remember. I don't know the author or the specific example, but what I remember hearing was... You look up and there's all these delicious figs you can eat, which represent the opportunities of life. And as you sit there contemplating which fig you should eat, they start to dry up and eventually fall off the tree. So we have to commit to a path. And I have to say in my past, I was very addicted to that feeling of having infinite potential. But it's a weird thing because it's not satisfying. It's an illusion, but it can feel so good. Almost feels like unhealthy addiction, now that I talk about it in hindsight. I think it is important to commit to one, but to commit to the one means to surrender the idea that I could have been any of the other Figs, even if it's not necessarily true. It's very hard to let go of that idea. Yeah. I think. I love that. That's, think that if I'm not mistaken, I think that was Sylvia Plath quote. love that. The Tree analogy where it's like, yeah, exactly where it's like that balance between like being patient and like allowing your journey to adjust and change and grow. And. staying committed to the North Star, that can change, but you have to lock in and commit to that path and allow it to change in any way, but to keep moving forward in order to get there. Versus like, know for myself, I've had patterns in the past of just running away from things, thinking it's safe to switch it up so fast and so often. But yeah, thank you for that big analogy. Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks for saying that. I can relate big time to what you just said. Okay, so again, I'm trying to get through not too many questions left, but I'll have one here before I try wrapping this up. But if you could leave listeners with one reframe that changed everything for you, what would it be? Self-love. In my whole life always comes back to self-love. I would just want to reframe the perspective that you're not doing enough and saying that you're actually already doing an incredible job and you don't really have to change anything in your life, which sounds dramatic and it sounds like a sweeping statement. But for me personally, when I realize I don't have to change any part of myself, it makes me want to change for the fun of changing, but not doing it for the wrong reason. So if I were to say that to myself, I would say, you don't have to change anything because you're already loved and you're already perfect. And if you want to change, that's beautiful, but it doesn't make you more loved or more perfect as you are. And if I could just teach my younger self that that would change everything for him. So hopefully I teach myself now. It's so beautiful. Oh my goodness. Oh gosh, I feel like I need to hear that again and again and again, because it feels so good. And it feels so like no matter where you're at in your journey, I feel like that's just like the most healing thing that you can give yourself is just, you know, deepening into that, that truth. And also just really quickly add on to that. Yeah. It's also cliche, but it's the reason why I like a lot of books that have this spiritual parable idea where you go through the entire journey to realize you already had, but you always wanted at the very beginning. but you couldn't see it because of your perspective. Now you can see it. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. That reminds me of I have to just quickly I'm checking my phone. This quote that my friend. One second. So side side story here. My I promise you guys I'm wrapping it up. I'm not going to we're going to do part two in the future so we don't go over to you. But. My friend, we went to the desert to throw this like, you know, musical, little music festival party and my friend created this little like side quest where he put little lights that went out to the lake bed and you know, in the, in the party it was loud and there was music and there's so much going on but then he would guide people to their own little solid, solitude area on a bike. It was like this crazy journey that like he would like, would be able to go take and at the end of that journey there was a little poster with a light on it and it said, I'm just read it out. Congrats. Congrats. You have found what you were looking for. We search and search and search only to find that the answer has been inside of us the entire time. Take a deep breath and repeat these words. I have always been happy, healthy and whole. Help me to love myself so much that I forgive anyone who has ever hurt me in my life. Strengthen my will to forgive myself at this moment. Thank you for this life and all of its lessons. I've got this. And he proceeded to have a little mini firework at the end of it. that you could light off in the middle of the desert. And it was this crazy, beautiful, magical little moment. it really just, I feel like, was such a space to just sit there by yourself, under the stars, to realize, like you just said, that it's like, we've always had what we were searching for all along. And we think it's in the house or the car or the financial abundance or the boyfriend or the girlfriend or the whatever it is, the new city, the new relationship. And... It's so crazy that you look back and you realize that it's like, it's always within us right here and right now. And it is just so powerful. So thank you for that. Thanks for sharing. It's beautiful. So crazy. I know it's a crazy story. I just had to mention that. You just keep in mind. I also just want to say I love when it feels like someone is just the messenger. They deliver the perfect message at the right time. And it sounds like what you was able to create was so powerful. for you in that moment is makes me happy to think about. Okay, so as we wrap this up, I guess my last question, my second to last question is the power of just allowing yourself to feel your emotions versus repressing them, guess, in order to, I feel like that's something that you've written in your books. What are your thoughts on like, you know, allowing the full spectrum of all of your emotions to like have a seat at the table? Yeah, definitely. think emotions are beautiful. And I always had this story that I have trouble expressing emotion just because I don't think I'm a super naturally expressive person when it comes to emotions. So I do feel emotions very deeply, but I don't really express it in a very visible way. But over time, I've started to realize that this isn't necessarily unhealthy, like childhood. I blamed everything on childhood trauma for a while, but I actually don't think it is. As long as I feel the emotion fully, then I can express it any way that feels comfortable for me. I think that's the most important thing. So I think every emotion is beautiful and it doesn't have to be expressed in the way that other people express it, as long as you find some outlet to express it. And also to love yourself enough to witness it fully without denying or suppressing it. And I think if you can do that, that's incredible. And I've really found that These emotions that I was so scared of for a while have actually led to some of the most profound positive change in my life. Like when I, for anger for example, when I feel incredibly strong anger within me and I listen to what it has to say, I just witness it, let it do what it wants to do, find an outlet to channel and express it. It's usually here to get me out of an unwanted situation. It leads to a positive thing, but I have to experience it and feel it. in order to get to that place. Otherwise, I don't get the message from it. I could say the same for all my emotions. Like sadness is another big one. That is so beautiful. So I think they're good. They're always trying to help us, but they need to be seen and just loved as they are. Versus just hidden and pushed down as less deemed not good. Yeah, easier said than done sometimes, but absolutely. Okay, well, I can keep going on forever. And I think that... we definitely should do a part two in the future because this has been such an amazing conversation. So I'll leave you with one last question. If there's one word that you could use to describe this next chapter of your life or the intention that you'd be setting for the next chapter of your life, what would it be? You can take a moment to think about it. I love this question. I forgot that you like to ask this question at end of the podcast. I think it's a beautiful question. I already said it for this year, so I have the word in my mind, but it's play. For me, that means No more focusing on healing. feel like I love healing, but kind of been through that full arc, had that journey. And now it's more about play and just enjoying my life as it is now. Amazing. That's such a good one. Oh, I love that question so much. Everyone's is so different. I've never had one person with the same question, the same answer, which is amazing. I think mine right now is trust. trust and just go for it, baby. So yeah, thank you, Eric. This has been such an incredible conversation. I'm so happy to connect with you. It's been so long. Where would you like to direct my audience to come connect with you on the digital world? How can we chat with you? How can we experience your work? Yeah, I just want to say thank you so much. It's been an amazing conversation. share, most of my writing now is focused on Substack. So if you just go to erictroncambell.com, that's where I share it if you feel called to it. or you can just search my name on Instagram. But that's it. This is really happy to be here. Thank you again. I hopefully see you in person in the next however long it takes. yeah, hopefully to have you back on the show in the next year or so. Absolutely. I love that. Thank you so much for the beautiful questions and creating the container. was awesome. Thank you. Right. Talk to you soon. Bye.